The heart of the matter.


Just a few more thoughts on the whole ‘women’s roar’ posts. Of course it is a subject that starts discussion easily. People love to debate, think, and discuss. And ladies have been discussing it, I love that.

I just want to clarify a couple things. We can’t get caught up on un-doctrinal things while talking through issues such as these. Yes I really do believe Scripture tells us blatantly where our place in this world is as women. I really do believe Scripture makes it plain that men are to be the head of the home just as Christ is the head of the church. I really believe that Scripture says clearly that men are to be the spiritual authority within the home and church. I believe Scripture tells us that the parents are to be the ones to teach and train their children in the ways of the Lord. I believe, according to Scripture that most of what is being done today in church is blaspheming the Word of God because we are oblivious to the simpleness of God’s plan in Scripture.

Women really are in control. Women really are running the show. We are doing our own thing… because its the way its always been done… by everyone. Maybe that should be a red light. If that’s the way that everyone is doing it, even in the secular churches, maybe we need to wake up.

What Scripture does not say is that Sunday school, Awana, youth groups, or any other program are wrong. Nor does Scripture say they are good. You just don’t find those things in the Bible. I cannot sit here and tell everyone that you are sinning if you are involved in a children’s program in your church. I can ask you if anything in your church is being run by men. I could ask you if you can think of any places where the men of the church are teaching, training, taking charge, setting up, filling any ministry roles. In most churches there are more women teaching & leading than men. And since that is the case I can guess then that in most homes women are also doing their own thing (I realize I’m just as guilty of this as anyone).  When a woman takes on a position in the church that is not a direct help to the ministry of her husband (or with his full blessing) then she has actually stepped out from under his authority and begun a ministry of her own in direct disobedience to God’s Word. Harsh eh?!  

So while I will not say that it is wrong for a woman to ever be involved in programs within the church I will say we are given guidelines and principles to live by. We have to come to the place where we, with a teachable heart, ask the Lord to show us why such programs are in place and if they are His best plan for His church, and our lives. Are they set up the way He lays out in Scripture or is it mans woman’s our attempt to create an illusion of spiritual productivity that is really nothing more than a blindfold to keep us from God’s true work and blessing?

Let’s start thinking. Better yet, lets start praying. If we really do want to know God’s will in this, He will show it clearly. We just have to be ready for the answer when it comes.



5 responses »

  1. Just so I’m clear, when you wrote this quote:

    “When a woman takes on a position in the church that is not a direct help to the ministry of her husband (or with his full blessing) then she has actually stepped out from under his authority and begun a ministry of her own in direct disobedience to God’s Word.”

    Are you saying that as long as the ministry (ie: awana, sunday school, vbs, etc) is run by our husbands or he is involved and wants us to be involved then it is ok to help out? Otherwise not ok? Meaning stay back unless you’re helping your husband with it?

    That was jumbled but know what I mean? I think that’s what you’re saying and if it is, then it makes sense to me…sounds like all a part of being his helpmeet. Now, me saying it makes sense does not mean that I find it easy to do. Making sense of something and then actually following it is the hard part for me. I’m stubborn :)

    And I also can’t help but wonder about churches that have very small populations where the men aren’t willing to step up. Should those churches be closed so the people have no where to go to church? Maybe they should, I’m just wondering out loud :)

  2. The last paragraph of my comment wasn’t written the way I wanted so strike that. I didn’t mean that just because there were no programs in the church that it should be closed down. If there are no men to step up and LEAD the church then the church should be closed down because I don’t think a church should be pastored by a woman.

    Thanks, that was bugging me. I think I’m done having a discussion with myself on your blog now :)

  3. Hey Jenn,
    Yes, I believe that Scripture is saying that as long as we are helping our husbands in their ministry its okay. I really am convicted of this through all I’ve been reading and studying.
    I’m glad you clarified about what you meant in your last paragraph too. Those very small churches with no men who are willing to lead might as well close up shop. What ministry is there when we are disobeying God’s Word? Remember when we read about Aaron’s sons who offered profane fire to the Lord? I think that is what many, if not most, of our churches today are doing without realizing it.
    I’m going to have to do another post. Just so much clarifying to do, you know. :)

  4. This is insightful.

    We left one church because they had a liberal view of women’s roles. Now we are in a church that is very man oriented, to the point where, as a woman, you are allowed virtually no meaningful input to any decision or any process.

    I have the John Piper/Wayne Grudem book on Biblical Mahood and Womanhood. I agree with it. Our family left a church because of it.

    However, I have also seen–from the other side–how discouraging it is to be discounted from any input whatsoever, precisely because one is a woman.

    While I firmly believe that women should not lead or ever have any authority over a man, I *do* think it is in accordance with scripture for women to be valued and sometimes even consulted, though not for a final decision. There are examples in scripture where wise women gave good advice.

    In our family, we often ask our children’s opinions on things, and we have been known to take their advice or lovingly accomodate their preferences. I do not think God expects church leaders to treat women with less respect than parents would accord to their children.

    In a perfect world, the men would love, value and cherish the women, and the women would willingly surrender to the men’s loving, sacrificial, servant leadership. But we won’t live in a perfect world until we get to the new Jerusalem. In the meantime, I guess the question is, if no men are willing to serve in a program, do we need to axe it? Maybe so.

    I had a friend who was a missionary to Africa. She taught African men about God. I asked her about the sex-role thing, and she said, “If no man is going to do it, then why shouldn’t I do it? Isn’t it worse to let these people go to hell?” I still don’t know what I think about that, but I suspect there is a flaw in the reasoning–maybe a lack of trust in God’s sovereignty.

    (I think lack of trust in the sovereignty of God is the root of much sin.)

    I guess God wants me to experience all sides of the issue so I will be better able to understand and love people in all places on this path.

    BTW–thanks for checking up on me. I hope to get back into BRF after my prestn Bible study ends on June 10.


  5. Hello Ruth. Thanks for your comment. It really is a lot to think about and consider. When we discuss our roles as women we see just how far reaching it is. It involves every aspect of our lives, and others lives.

    I know what you are saying about women wanting to be valued. Hey, I’m a woman with a husband to submit to just the same as every other married lady out there. I’ve been through some icky marital times myself and know how hard it can be to live out what Scripture says.

    We may not live in a perfect world, but God gave His Word to that same imperfect world. We imperfect people cannot trust our own way of thinking and we have been given a guide to live in a way that God says is best. We don’t disobey and work against what He says because no one else lives that way and its too hard, we do it because it is right.

    There is no doubt that God can work through women that are not living as Scripture defines. God is God, He can work despite our unbelief, our ignorance, our fear, and our sin, and still bring about His will. But should we continue to sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! We will never know what He ‘will’ do if we don’t stop doing what ‘we’ would do.

    Women who think they are valued because men take notice of their wisdom and consult them in decisions have been blinded by the culture and our sin. Been there, done that. I agree that it is a good thing for a husband to discuss things with his wife during his decision making and I am grateful that my husband is one of those kind of guys. If you have a hubby like that consider yourself blessed. :) But women (as seen in Scripture) are not valued for that. We are valued and loved for all those things that Prov.31 talks about, not for stepping out of our bounds.

    I’m not saying it is always fun. I’m not saying its easy. I’m not even saying it is something I can desire on my own. I have to be willing to be selfless and that just doesn’t come easy to me. God has a lot of work to do in this heart of mine.

    It all boils down to this. We can’t keep thinking about whether we like it or believe it would work out okay or not. If it is what Scripture says we do it and leave the rest up to God. Sometimes simplicity is very very hard.

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